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2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
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KEYWORDS
TOKYO —
Toyota may be the first to market with a plug-in hybrid electric (PHEV)
vehicle. Today, we were briefed on Toyota’s future hybrid and
alternative fuel plans. And while there was no official announcement by
Yoshitaka Asakura, Project General Manager of Toyota’s Hybrid Vehicle
System Engineering Development Division, he mentioned that their
plug-in development program was under way and that it may not wait for
lithium-ion battery technology to mature.
"Toyota has the knowledge and experience with nickel metal hydride. And we have to use the battery we know best, in terms of overall performance," said Asakura.
Toyota is using their proven nickel-metal hydride (NiMh) battery packs in prototype Prius PHEV’s which we had an opportunity to drive at Toyota’s Higashi-Fuji Technical Center about 45 minutes (by train) outside Tokyo. The prototype PHEV’s use two current generation Prius battery packs sandwiched together with the charging system in-between. The packs are modified to deliver a greater ability to charge and discharge. This is, according to Asakura, so that they can get an accurate representation of how the more energy dense lithium ion pack will perform in production vehicles. In all likelihood, the first of those vehicles will be the next generation Prius. The prototype battery system weighs about 220 lbs. more than the current production Prius pack and intrudes into the trunk so that that’s there’s only room for about two medium size suitcases. A lithium ion pack would be much smaller and lighter—about the size of today’s production battery pack.
Asakura said the prototypes can operate on electric power for a range of about 7 miles and can re-charge in three to four hours using a 110-vlot outlet. Under the hood is the current Prius’s 1.5-liter inline four. The electric motor generates 50kW, which combined with the more powerful pack, allows the Prius prototype to reach 62 mph on electric-only power. Current cars can only hit about 25 mph before the gasoline engine cuts in.
Our drive in the prototype PHEV was brief, only four laps of a small course setup inside the test facility. But it was impressive. The hybrid system has an "EV" mode and a more conventional "hybrid" mode. In EV mode the vehicle can run on electric power longer and with a more aggressive throttle input than in the hybrid mode. With an eye on the energy flow meter (basically a reprogrammed and updated version of what’s in the Prius now) we were able to accelerate up to approximately 50 mph and keep the car in electric mode all the way around the track. Like many owners do in the current Prius, we found ourselves playing the efficiency game of trying to keep the car in electric mode as long as possible. After two back-to-back laps, the monitor said we still had around 6 kilometers of battery life remaining. The most impressive part of the system was that it can take 1/4 to 1/2 throttle without engaging the gasoline engine. And that means for short 3 to 4 mile commutes, one could conceivably get to work and return home solely on electric power. The hybrid mode works much like the current car, engaging the internal combustion engine much sooner. This mode, it is presumed will be most applicable to long trips, when charging the battery isn’t an option.
The next generation Prius, due around calendar year 2009, will almost certainly use a plug-in system. The car may launch as a normal hybrid and later, once the lithium ion battery technology is ready, switch to plug-in capability. Or, it may be a plug-in from the beginning using a large NiMh pack and switch to lithium ion later. We think the latter may be true because we’ve heard rumors that the vehicle architecture is being designed for both battery types.
Whichever route Toyota goes, it will need more hybrids on the road. They have publicly announced their goal is to sell 1-million hybrids each year beginning early next decade. And PHEV’s are sure to make up a healthy portion of those vehicles.
"Toyota has the knowledge and experience with nickel metal hydride. And we have to use the battery we know best, in terms of overall performance," said Asakura.
Toyota is using their proven nickel-metal hydride (NiMh) battery packs in prototype Prius PHEV’s which we had an opportunity to drive at Toyota’s Higashi-Fuji Technical Center about 45 minutes (by train) outside Tokyo. The prototype PHEV’s use two current generation Prius battery packs sandwiched together with the charging system in-between. The packs are modified to deliver a greater ability to charge and discharge. This is, according to Asakura, so that they can get an accurate representation of how the more energy dense lithium ion pack will perform in production vehicles. In all likelihood, the first of those vehicles will be the next generation Prius. The prototype battery system weighs about 220 lbs. more than the current production Prius pack and intrudes into the trunk so that that’s there’s only room for about two medium size suitcases. A lithium ion pack would be much smaller and lighter—about the size of today’s production battery pack.
Asakura said the prototypes can operate on electric power for a range of about 7 miles and can re-charge in three to four hours using a 110-vlot outlet. Under the hood is the current Prius’s 1.5-liter inline four. The electric motor generates 50kW, which combined with the more powerful pack, allows the Prius prototype to reach 62 mph on electric-only power. Current cars can only hit about 25 mph before the gasoline engine cuts in.
Our drive in the prototype PHEV was brief, only four laps of a small course setup inside the test facility. But it was impressive. The hybrid system has an "EV" mode and a more conventional "hybrid" mode. In EV mode the vehicle can run on electric power longer and with a more aggressive throttle input than in the hybrid mode. With an eye on the energy flow meter (basically a reprogrammed and updated version of what’s in the Prius now) we were able to accelerate up to approximately 50 mph and keep the car in electric mode all the way around the track. Like many owners do in the current Prius, we found ourselves playing the efficiency game of trying to keep the car in electric mode as long as possible. After two back-to-back laps, the monitor said we still had around 6 kilometers of battery life remaining. The most impressive part of the system was that it can take 1/4 to 1/2 throttle without engaging the gasoline engine. And that means for short 3 to 4 mile commutes, one could conceivably get to work and return home solely on electric power. The hybrid mode works much like the current car, engaging the internal combustion engine much sooner. This mode, it is presumed will be most applicable to long trips, when charging the battery isn’t an option.
The next generation Prius, due around calendar year 2009, will almost certainly use a plug-in system. The car may launch as a normal hybrid and later, once the lithium ion battery technology is ready, switch to plug-in capability. Or, it may be a plug-in from the beginning using a large NiMh pack and switch to lithium ion later. We think the latter may be true because we’ve heard rumors that the vehicle architecture is being designed for both battery types.
Whichever route Toyota goes, it will need more hybrids on the road. They have publicly announced their goal is to sell 1-million hybrids each year beginning early next decade. And PHEV’s are sure to make up a healthy portion of those vehicles.
120. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Did everyone forget about CNG vehicles? No pollution, fill up at home less than $1 per gallon. Widely made in 90's & 2000 for fleet vehicles. None now. Why?
119. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
The oil companies must be putting serious pressure on Toyota - 7 miles before a recharge or the GAS engine comes on! Tesla has b ls. Toyota, grow some.
118. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
We have been following the development of the Prius Hybrid since my sister on the East Coast bought one in 2001. Currently, we are looking to buy a new car (maybe a 2009 Prius). My wife and I just returned from a long trip from the Madison, WI Area to Sante Fe and Taos, NM using our Toyota Corolla and got 39+ mpg fully loaded during our vacation. While we think we will probably buy a 2009 Prius, we are hesitant because we know that Honda is coming out with a 2009 Hybrid (not until after 1/2009) that may out perform the Prius regarding mpg, cargo space etc. Most people we speak to about their Prius including both my younger sister and my younger brother really like their Prius but report getting only about 50 mpg max on the highway (we do more highway driving than city driving). 50 mpg is not much more than our Corolla gets @ 39 to 40 mpg hwy. Since we can no longer get the tax incentive for the Prius, would it still be worth the extra 9 or 10,000 more than one would pay for a new Corolla? Any helpful information or supportive feedback that would help us make a good decision on buying the best "Green Car" that will meet our needs would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
117. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
> Coal is DIRTY, OIL is DIRTY and EXPENSIVE, Nuclear is VERY VERY DIRTY and VERY VERY Expensive so as THINKING humans we are left with wind and sun for energy sources. But, humans that can do MATH understand there is not enough solar or wind energy that can be captured in the US to support the current population density, much less including inward migration, so we will have to continue with coal and develop nuclear power. Otherwise, we will starve in the dark.
116. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
The big 3..especially GM can go the way of the dino for all I care. Instead of embracing they decided to literally squash their EV technology. Toyota is guilty as well...Question...Why can't Toyota build a prius that had the RAV4 EV technology coupled with a small ICE??! Better...why don't they bring back the RAV4 EV with 120miles per charge? Hmmm.
115. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Waiting for Lithium Ion batt. to mature? Wow they have only been around for 30 years... They are dragging their feet on purpose, because they want all you lemmings to run out and buy the 7 mile version, then wait two years and run out and buy the 15 mile version, then wait two years and they will release another 30 mile version. If a guy in a garage can make a prius do 40 miles without gas then Toyota can do better, they just don't because they are greedy. F~ Them and their cooperate BS, build you're own EV, its under $10K total and will do 60 miles with no gas.
114. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
The best combination is a plug in Prius with the company EEStor's solid state ultracapacitor.It will give a 10x capacity over the present batteries in the Prius.
113. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
For a lifetime of driving I have averaged 40+ mpg. I drove 2 Rabbit Diesels as well as a Golf Diesel. I am now getting 40-43 mpg faithfully from my 2000 Honda Civic. I want a Plug-in that will give me at least 100 mpg overall if not better. I would like better. Can you do it? I bet you can and they would fly out of the showroom. I remember my Rabbits faithfully getting 55-60. There is a huge number of us out here who can't understand why the big 3 have kept their head in the sand for so long. Hmmmm, a pun?
112. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Question: How does the plug-in effect the cost of driving?...such as dollars/100 miles. Seems we need to know the cost of a 4 hour charge and amount of gas used per 100 miles at, say $4/gallon. Please respond at pauld213@hotmail.com.
111. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
#21 Where Have you been? Nuclear is not cleaner! It is hyped to be a clean energy, but when you generate power with nuclear you get spent, highly radioactive nuclear waste that has to be buried inside a mountain in specially designed containers. It costs millions for the excavation and building the storage containers. Also they are in the process of hollowing out a mountain for storing nuclear waste and at current production levels, the mountain cave will be full as soon as it is completed. They will have to immediately have to start on another mountain. I don't care how well the containers are designed, eventually they are going to leak toxic waste into the ground. We need to use solar and wind power, they generate no waste from beginning to end. I agree with the plug in hybrid idea, but I am tired of seeing high school shop classes who can build a woking hybrid of all electric vehicle, and then hearing how multi-billion dollar auto companies can't do it for another ten years. I am proud to be american, but we are getting our tail kicked on the automotive front.
110. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Website: http://www.looksgoodinpolkadots.wordpress.com
I'm all over the PHEV idea. We ADORE our 05 Prius and should be ready to upgrade about the time the PLUG IN models arrive. EV's are much more efficient than any other automotive option. More efficient than hydrogen, definitely more efficient than gasoline. Yes it takes electricity to charge those bad boys up... so buy yourself some wind credits through the power company to offset your footprint. Install solar panels on your house... no more excuses people. EV's make sense. http://looksgoodinpolkadots.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/electric-vehicles-and-hydrogen-vehicles/
109. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Re #104. The cost of a replacement battery for the RAV4 EV was ~$20000. The American public purchased only about 300 RAV4 EV's per year, which of course was unsufficient to warrant continued production.
108. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
#86 only if u new what your talking about... you are on the "band-wagon" where u think everything is over priced, don't like it DON'T BUY it. And before you post something research instead of just listening to what your friends are saying that I am sure they are pulling the information out of their ass
107. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Gas is going up...$4.00+ in California keep going to the pump...every week waste about $60.00 dollars...Can wait to buy one of this Hybrid plug-in .
106. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
#86. "Big Oil" profits are 9%. I willing to bet the company you work for makes more than that.
105. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Like it or not, coal and nuclear will be powering us for quite awhile as oil supplies dwindle. Anybody who has done even rudimentary research on the subject knows that solar cells are not only marginally efficient, but that in many cases it takes a load of energy to manufacture them and a lot of noxious chemicals. Wind simply does not offer the required density. In the long run we'll be using a combination of all of the above, but the near term (under twenty year solution) will be nukes and coal. Deal with it.
104. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
We have 2 people in sonoma with rava 4 toyotas and they are getting 120 miles per charge. these cars are like 7 years old. what happened??
103. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Re #14: Read up on why Toyota pulled the RAV4-EV. It was a license problem. Chevron purchased the patent rights for the superior battery technology in the RAV4-EV and they're suppressing it. Its sad our only hope for better technologies is that some foreign company ( Sanyo, Panasonic, Varta? ) develops it before the US Automaker or Oil Industry can kill it.
102. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Step 1 - California eliminates building permit fees for solar energy projects, e.g. solar electric panels. Step 2 - California eliminates increased property assessments for homes that install solar projects. Step 3 - Local power companies buy back excess power from solar electric panels according to time-of-day billing rates. Step 4 - States reduce registration fees for qualifying hybrid and EV plug-in vehicles. Step 5 - I'll put my money where my mouth is and buy all of the above.
101. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Website: http://www.mickmarsden.com
My lease is up on my VW Passat March 28th 2009. I so want to buy a plug-in Prius at that time.
100. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Coal is DIRTY, OIL is DIRTY and EXPENSIVE, Nuclear is VERY VERY DIRTY and VERY VERY Expensive so as THINKING humans we are left with wind and sun for energy sources. The Prius Electric with hybred is great solution they should sell and optional Solar/Battery solution for night time charging. And build in Solar panels on the roof (already available in aftermarket). This IS the solution. Average 90 to 150 miles per gallon of fuel the fuel could be gasoline or nat type gas. Within 20 years we will find battery technology that will just need battery/solar solution with no other fuel source. So the REAL solution NOW is a Prius Solar Roof/Lithium and a Small Hybred Pickup like the totally cool aBAT.
99. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Coal is ten times cheaper than crude oil even. The Coal fired power plant is dirty but less so than automobiles and they are more efficient and there are many fewer "tailpipes" to monitor. The waste heat from coal fired power plants can be used to help make ethanol for example, but that from cars cannot be. Natural gas fired cogeneration powerplants can be three times as efficient as most car engines.
98. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I have 30 185 watt solar panels on my roof and a large battery array in the garage. My wife's Prius will be a plug in by the end of June. Its batteries will be powered by the sun. The batteries will be lithium ion. Toyota is just being mesmerized by its own research. There are many plug-in Prius' on the highway with lithium ion batteries. calcars.org has all the information Toyota needs but they have to do it themselves. They have become just like Detroi. If they don't invent it, it cannot be good.
97. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Dear Toyota, Please build this Plug-In Hybrid Technology to be on Dealer lots this year. I want to buy the Plug-In Prius more than anything in the world. This is the most exciting technology I've read/studied and love it. Also, Please make it possible to fill the vehicle with CNG, Compressed Natural gas. Almost every home that has Electricity, Also has a Natural Gas Source. And Natural Gas is much cleaner than Gasoline. And Natural gas cost less than One Dollar per equivalent Gallon of gasoline as well. These are two good reasons to make the vehicle have the choice between the three fuels. Electricity, Gasoline, CNG, or a combination of each. Thank you Toyota! I'll call your customer service/Corporate Headquarters everyday until you sell the Plug in Prius to the public. I'm soo excited! Please don't make us continue to wait!
96. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Website: www.aptera.com
300+ MPG. Enough said.
95. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
i have a 2005 toyota prius that works great,the only complaint is the tires are wearing out at 30000 miles.you would think they would last through the warrenty,toyota should address the problem,what tires would someone suggest i buy.thanks
94. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
One has always wondered why there is a punch out circle on the bottom bumper of the Prius and other Toyota cars.Wife currently gets 55 MPG on her 08 model. The 10" model will double in one way charges (14 miles). Big 3 have a chance to turn the gas issue into the biggest consumer upgrade in history. If they do not get it right this time, to hell with them. I am dying to buy American, but it lookslike it will be Toyota again.
93. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I won't get a hybrid until they make a station wagon or minivan size. I'm in the service industry and have equipment to haul. Besides, I've heard that station wagon's are more aerodynamically efficient than sedan's.
92. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
We need to go nuclear to get the energy, France does it, China does it, we can do it.
91. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
People who say that plug-ins are stupid because of electricity coming from burning oil obviously don't consider hydro power, wind power, solar or nuclear power. You don't have to burn oil to make electric power just like you don't have to eat fast food for every meal. There are choices people!
90. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Bring back the EV1 and the RAV4EV! Those EV's worked great, the people that drove them said they were great, any many years latter we can only get 7 miles? My Ideal setup would be a hybrid for long trips and an electric only for most of my driving. Add some solar panels on the roof, a few batteries in the garage with an inverter and store the power from the sun during the day and put in in your EV at night! More power to toyota however, unlike the big three, they have a car that people want NOW. The big three are so short sighted! They make money while they can and are NEVER in sync with what the market is asking for. They are behind the curve most of the time.
89. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Its called a tesla. 220 miles on a charge, corrvette performance. add home solar and you drive for free! now in production. expensive but so were dvds when they first came out.
88. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
When oil gets to $150-200 a barrel, what do you think electricity is going to cost? Plug ins are stupid! Should be concentrating on technology to recharge an efficient battery with motion.
87. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I want to know of a Toyota dealer who has advance/current info. on the '09 Prius. I'm interested in getting on a waiting list. Thanks, Dennis
86. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I own a 2006 Prius and love it. Looking forward to plug in's. Re: commenter #5, how many feel like me - I can't wait for the day when we can "return the favor" to big oil and stomp them into the ground - just as they've been doing to us all these years! We have a global crisis - our politivians are immobilzed by lobbyists, more and more people can't eat, can't pay their mortgages, we're shorting education while big oil "rapes" us. They're taking obscene profits and, remember, they don't call income "profit" until they can't find anywhere else to pidgeon hole it.
85. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
RE: Comment #70 - Wife drives 2 miles to work in their minivan. Buddy, do the math. How much gas/money will she save with a PHEV? The premium for the car would buy decades of gasoline for your wife's commute! PHEV's are great if they can deal with someone like myself who has a 70 mile commute (round trip) and having a car run 40 miles+ each way on electricity would be terrific.
84. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
We need 30-40 miles of range on battery alone. That kind of range will turn the world upside down and set the U.S. free from foreign oil. Think of the global repercussions! No more cow towing to the Saudis and their ilk. Yes, we will have to generate more electricity to charge the batteries, but we've got lots of options there. It narrows our energy challenge into an issue of investment in the electrical grid with OUR OWN resources.
83. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I have a 2008 toyota prius and I love it I am planing on geting a plug-in prius for my sun.
82. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I drive a Prius and enjoy 50+ mpg, however, I have heard that a wagon design with solar assist is also in the making.
81. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
im 18 going on 19 i remember saying i would much rather wait a few years for the prius to be a plug in car. before i buy one. and low and behold its here! aahhh! :] i can't wait.
80. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Website: http://fuelzilla.com/
If they can make a production model go 7 miles on electric power only, there will sure be upgrades on the market that will boost it to 20 and 40 miles, depending on how much you are willing to pay for a battery. There is a ton of unused space in Prius'es trunk (assuming they will not do a major redesign). Also, a little correction: the gasoline engine in the current (2007) model kicks in at around 40 MPH, not 25 MPH. If you are accelerating on a down slope or noone is behind you, you can conceivably get it to 40 MPH in electric only. In real life if you try to keep up with traffic, you will only get to 15MPH or so before ICE kicks in because you would want quicker acceleration than the electric motor (the battery's current actually) can provide. Anxiously waiting for the 2009 model. My kid had grown up to driving age and I'm planning to dump my 2007 Prius on him and get myself a 2009, LOL!
79. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype & Gas Prices
These hybrids are great and they'll do well. For the people that are talking about $5-6 gas prices. Realize why gas is so expensive first. It is the weak dollar. When the economy turns around in the next 3 or 4 years and the dollar gets back to even par with the Euro from interest rate hikes and debt pay-down, which it will... then gas prices will at that time reach levels where people will think of them as reasonable again. Peak oil is BS. It's all manipulated on the open markets, supply and inventories that is...
78. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Soon we'll be back to where we were 20 years ago! The oil companies buy up battery technologys and do nothing with it to kill innovation. The technology to drive hundreds of miles at a time on electricity is around. There are even cars that run on (compressed) air. Looking at NMG car, Tango, Telsa, and Zenn car that's highway capable
77. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Toyota has yet to give up the parallel approach - the gain in distance is achieved in decoupling into a series configuration and adding more battery with the smaller ICE engine and no mechanical transmission. Prius will gain massive distance with more battery when they give up the mechanical connection from the engine to the tires.
76. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
The 7 miles on elctric only is a joke...check out Raser Technolgies..they we show off a Hummer that will get 100mpg!!! Now we are talking!!!
75. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Reply to #25. I don't think the auto manufacturers are in cahoots really. I think the dealers make so much money off of maintenance that they are trying to figure out a way to keep making it. PHEVs would lower this drastically and the dealers don't want that.
74. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I think that its a really cool idea, but if you travel alot and do so with friends or family you will be sacrificing too much trunk space. I'd rather have the trunk space and be able to carpool, along with all my gear, than have to take two cars that are slightly more efficient.
73. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
It is a little disappointing that Toyota is only looking at seven miles in the all electric range. Tesla has an all electric system, and GM is going with the Volt at forty all electric miles and Zap has a model with one hundred miles. Perhaps the technology is one year out and Toyota is trying to hit the market sooner, but with seven miles in electric mode, it is hardly worth making the transition from my current Prius when the technology is about to explode.
72. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
LOOK LIKE PRIUS IS THE CAR TO HAVE.
71. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I'm interested in the plugin all electric idea. I hope Toyota will fess up soon with details on what they are going to release. Until I know more, I'm keeping my eye more on the GM Volt (2010) 40 mile all electric (680 mile with backup generator), and the Zap Alias (2009) with a 100 mile all electric range. Also they both look better than a Prius.
70. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Currently my wife drives two miles to work in our mini-van. We are looking forward to trading the van in on a new 2009 Prius PHEV
69. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
My husband and I are renting a 2008 Prius for a road trip this year. We don't want to take our 14 miles to the gallon Jeep Cherokee. We are going to buy the 2009 Prius. How can you not buy one with ridulous gas prices. From all the other comments, I know we won't be the only ones. Go Prius!!
68. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I WANT ONE!!!! NOW
67. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
#58 "When fuel hits $5 or $6 a gallon say bye bye to the Big three" In Europe, the price is 8 USD a gallon, and your are right, there are no Big three cars here...
66. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
The plug in Prius is likely to be my next car to replace my 25 mi/GAL Ford Focus. BUT, if available in the US I would rather buy the compressed air car from the new French car manufacturer MDI. They will be for sale in France in 2009 and also available in bi-energy with excellent autonomy and half price than the Prius.
65. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
The plug in Prius is likely to be my next car to replace my 25 mi/GAL Ford Focus. BUT, if available in the US I would rather buy the compressed air car from the new French car manufacturer MDI. They will be for sale in France in 2009 and also available in bi-energy with excellent autonomy and half price than the Prius.
64. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
The plug in Prius is likely to be my next car to replace my 25 mi/GAL Ford Focus. BUT, if available in the US I would rather buy the compressed air car from the new French car manufacturer MDI. They will be for sale in France in 2009 and also available in bi-energy with excellent autonomy and half price than the Prius.
63. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
From what I have previously read, I thought the plug-in hybrids would get about 30 miles before exhausting the batteries. That would allow most drivers to commute at moderate speed without using gasoline. Seems to me, except for new adopters, that is the point at which a plug-in hybrid would really become attractive to urban drivers.
62. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
7 miles per charge is pathetic with a 3 to 4 hr. recharge time frame.. We had the ev1 about ten yrs. ago and thet could go forever on a charge (100 to 150 miles).. I guess we should go backwards and re-learn old ways to become efficient.. Mabe we should start becoming independent and build our own system as many people are doing today..
61. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I want to put up a deposit and get in line for a plug-in model of the Prius when they come out and I hope it will be soon!!! The big 3 US auto makers had their chance to produce a marvelous product and in fact did make such a product in the form of the EV1 but then collectively orchestrated a recall and destruction of this fine automobile to their shame.. It would have revived their industry as gas prices continues to go into the stratosphere but wonder of wonders they ass kissed their bed partners, the oil industry and other special interests including the Bushies to kill a great product.. The US auto industry will become extinct just like the dinosaurs because the morons who run it are not forward thinking and can,t adapt or see the inevitable coming.. They deserve what they get!!! Let,s, once again, hire some brains in our countrys industries so that we can get back to leading the world in inovation and technology.. John Meyer, a very concerned citizen..
60. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Website: http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2008/03/geneva-volkswagens-69-mpg-golf-diesel.html
Well, here's a promising start for diesel/hybrid technology. Due in the US market is the new VW Hybrid TDI Golf (rabbit), however like many of you were hoping, it does not include a Li-ion battery, it uses NiMH packs but still has a very nice output of 69 MPG. See the attached link for more info.
59. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Just when is the 2009 Prius supposed to come out? Number 28 has got it all wrong. Our society is steeped in what is best for me.A clean environment is best for ALL and in the long run benefits everyone, wallet included
58. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Some quick comments: 1. The Japanese get it, Detroit doesn't. 2. When fuel hits $5 or $6 a gallon say bye bye to the Big three, because they are short sighted and tied to the old way of thinking and big oil way with huge hp. 3. Plug in is great and I want one. It's just a step. The future is dictated by Peak Oil reality. Read up on it and get wise. The Prius is only a step. We need something even better. Check out Aptera for a look at future thinking. If you want to be really efficient and are in IT work from home. Electrons over the wire are far more efficient than moving humans and steel around on freeways.. The future for sustainability (no counting wars and massive famines) will be something like a wind generator providing perhaps 3KW of power for your "earth bermed home". The house will be far more efficient. The wind generator will provide the equivalent to 10 gallons of gas a month. You'll have to do all your driving on the equivalent of 1/10th that. This means, 3000lb cars are going to be to large and a 50KW motor way to large. The 42 HP Prius will be an expensive antique. You'll want a 300 to 500lb three wheeled 1 seater for most of your transportation. That will use a 3KW or less motor and probably a small battery. Your goal should be to have an enclosed piece of one man transportation with some supplies, like a velomobile. Maybe something like a three wheeled enclosed snowmobile for weight comparison. The HP will be low because you need the energy from renewable. You'll drive 15,000 miles with this kind of device on 1/10th the power from your wind generator, if your lucky.
57. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
For people who think that plug-ins are dirty because we burn coal to get the electricity from the wall, you should check out this web site for a detailed pollution calculation that shows why coal generated electricity is still much greener than burning gas in a car. http://www.evworld.com:80/general.cfm?page=evFAQ&title=EV%20FAQs
56. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
2009 seemed too long to wait for the Plug-in EV. They should have all the parts and blueprints of the previous EV's before and they are just dragging it. I hope the Oil Companies will not fund the "so called experts" and give bias studies again to discourage people from buying Plug in Hybrid EV's. We should show OPEC and other OIL Producing countries that we can survive with less use of their oil.
55. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
"The prototype battery system weighs about 220 lbs. more than the current production Prius pack and intrudes into the trunk so that that’s there’s only room for about two medium size suitcases." There ya go. One of the main reasons the prius is so viable to the general public is because it offers the same level of utility as a mainstream vehicle: Similar (or better) range, passenger space, and cargo space. Start sacrificing cargo or passenger room for more batteries and you pigeon-hole yourself back into the "specialty" market. There are thousands of people ready to buy a specialty vehicle that is ultra-high efficiency with low cargo space, but there are millions of people that want an "above average" efficiency car with no sacrifices. ----- Of course we can make it... but should we?
54. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Every battery technology has its advantages and disadvantages. I have a 2004 Prius and love it. But what I really wanted was an electric car, but the Rav4EV was only sold in the West. Ni Hydride have high current but need a computer to carefully control charge and discharge, but they have very high current output. Li is a very nice technology to use because the voltage of the cell is a very accurate indication of the state of charge. An interesting advantage of greater battery only range is that the safety actually improves because you are not trying to charge and discharge such a large percentage of the battery capacity in such a short time. As a side note one of the first batteries I bought was a bunch of surplus cells I bought from an ad in the back of Popular Science I think they cane from the Nike anti-aircraft missile program. I used than to jump start cars when they were 30 years old. They were F cells which are like d cells but about 50% longer.
53. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
#36 - you don't HAVE to plug in a 'plug in hybrid' - you CAN plug it in if you like - but if you want to drive around all year and go to the gas station every day you can. That's the beauty of the plug in hybrid.
52. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
#1 You need to keep in mind that the 7 miles per charge is based on the NiMH batteries NOT Lithium-ion. A PHEV based on Lithium-ion batteries is where you get the longer range.
51. Read #14
Everyone should simply read #14. The auto makers have stalled on this for over 10 YEARS.
50. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
The hybrids are sweet and I got a hand job from #2.
49. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I am buying one and I am going to ge ta solar panal and charge this thing off the grid that should help increase the green effect
48. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
this car rock off my parents sock cause they want to buy it but the only problem is that they are smooke too much so they can't afford it buty i just wanted to share that with you
47. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
What do you mean by plug in?
46. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Does anybody remember that chevron owns the nickel metal battery technology that worked so well 10 years ago on the rav-4, ev-1, s-10 electric, and ranger ev? They sued toyota for continuing to use the NiMh batteries that worked so well in the rav-4ev. THATS WHY WE DONT HAVE LONG RANGE EV'S ANYMORE!!!! I converted my own car a geo metro and get 50-60 miles per charge on regular wal mart boat batteries, so it is possible. All this talk about 10-40 mile ranges with exspensive lithium batteries is ridiculous. NiMh batteries work great only we are not allowed to use them because chevron bought out the rights.
45. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Does anybody remember that chevron owns the nickel metal battery technology that worked so well 10 years ago on the rav-4, ev-1, s-10 electric, and ranger ev? They sued toyota for continuing to use the NiMh batteries that worked so well in the rav-4ev. THATS WHY WE DONT HAVE LONG RANGE EV'S ANYMORE!!!! I converted my own car a geo metro and get 50-60 miles per charge on regular wal mart boat batteries, so it is possible. All this talk about 10-40 mile ranges with exspensive lithium batteries is ridiculous. NiMh batteries work great only we are not allowed to use them because chevron bought out the rights.
44. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
On another note, for people who think that plug-ins are dirty because we burn coal to get the electricity from the wall, you should know that power plants are more efficient and have a bigger yield of electricity than gasoline engines. So burning more coal to burn less gas really is beneficial to the environment, not to mention much cheaper.
43. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
There seems to be a misconception that the plug-in hybrid absolutely NEEDS to be plugged in. This is false. The reason why you would want to plug it in is that you don't burn gas for short runs. In theory, f you drive less than 7 miles a day and plug it in nightly, you'll never ever need to put gas in your car. But if you choose not to plug it in, then it operates like a normal prius, meaning it is always in Hybrid mode.
42. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I am interested in this vehicle for 2 reasons, to save money and to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. It's about time we have a vehicle that makes the greenies happy and also makes someone like me happy as well.
41. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Production of nickel batteries in hybrids negate the benefit of the vehicles, but combine combine 70mpg diesels with bio-diesel and you have a winner.
40. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
"Asakura said the prototypes can operate on electric power for a range of about 7 miles and can re-charge in three to four hours using a 110-vlot outlet. Under the hood is the current Prius’s 1.5-liter inline four. The electric motor generates 50kW, which combined with the more powerful pack, allows the Prius prototype to reach 62 mph on electric-only power. Current cars can only hit about 25 mph before the gasoline engine cuts in."--2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive. This means we can drive for 7 miles at a peak speed of 62 MPH without going into the HYBRID mode. This will work for short commutes to work, under 7 miles. for a gas free transport. Current hybrids shift from electric into HYBRID mode, which uses gas,if you exceed 25 mph. Please correct me if I am wrong or missing added points. Thank you.
39. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
As to the 2009 model..... I will buy it......if it is lithium-ion, with plug-in!
38. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I see the plug in hybrid as THE next generation automobile. Power plants that become more green. A power box in the garage that charges at the most economical times. Battery technology that improves. A small 'gasoline' engine that can burn used cooking oil, etc. AND people living closer to work. We could practically eliminate burning oil or coal over time.
37. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I see the plug in hybrid as THE next generation automobile. Power plants that become more green. A power box in the garage that charges at the most economical times. Battery technology that improves. A small 'gasoline' engine that can burn used cooking oil, etc. AND people living closer to work. We could practically eliminate burning oil or coal over time.
36. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I own a 2003 Prius and this is the first car I have had this long that I still say, "I LOVE MY CAR." That being said, I don't want to go to a plug in version. I don't want to have to rely on being able to plug my car in somewhere to get the best gas mileage, but want technology that provides better gas mileage without relying on a store, business, or other place where I may go to have a spot for me to "plug in" and recharge. I had heard Toyota was coming out with three versions of the Prius for 2009, only one of which was a plug in version...anyone else hear the same thing? What else do they have to offer, and where else am I going to have to look to replace my car in the next couple years?
35. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
When you talk about companies like Tesla and state they get so and so mileage from a charge. None of the companies stated have anything in production yet. All they have is concepts that they are having a hard time getting to production. Guess what. It's the batteries. All the car companies and battery makers can make all the claims they want but until you give us a production vehicle all you have is a concept.
34. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I work about 10 miles from my office. It would not be difficult to add a charging station in our parking lot. Most of my shopping trips are in the 20 mile one-way range. Charging stations in store parking lots could be an option for retailers looking for "green" points. I think 7-10 mile electric ranges are very viable.
33. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Comment on #31....please keep in mind that some of us drive very short distances. You are driving 50+ miles one way each day. The car is nice and warmed up and running efficiently. I live 5 miles from work. The stores I shop at are about 1 mile away. In the winter, I sometimes only average 36 MPG. It isn't always jack rabbit starts that hurt mileage.
32. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I am very likely to purchase the 2009 Prius, especially if its a plug in. How about adding factory installed solar panels on the roof of the vehical... so while its parked all day while I work it can recharge as well. My commute is about 10 miles each way, even with the low end estimate of 7 miles per charge... with a solar panel enhancement I could almost make it both ways without further improvments. Of-course the more improvements toward efficiency the better to include better battries or kinetic energy recapturing capabilites.
31. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Commment on #30, I own my third Prius and I commute over 50 mles one way in the DC area from MD to VA and have been getting over 53 MPG on the last two vehicles. I keep up with the traffic on the beltway and toll road driving at traffic speeds of about 65MPH. I surprised at people who are only getting in the 40s and suspect that it has a lot to do with driviing habits, as my wife only gets in the 40s but she does the jack rabbit starts ansd doesn't look ahead at the traffic suituations and anticipate slow downs and light changes. I beleive that all dirvers could improve their gas mileage significantly if they would only calm down and not try to be the first to get somewhere..
30. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Looks exciting but I agree with the writers who say 7 miles (not MPG, #13) per charge is too low. I've got nearly 70K miles on a 2003 (old model) Prius, at a bit over 42 MPG, figured the only accurate way - by dividing the odometer reading by the gallons bought each time and keeping an Excel file of the figures. The MPG readings on the car's display are usually about 5% optimistic. Forget promises and boasts, and EPA figures are simply ridiculous. Consumer Reports tests are the most accurate - my car got 41 MPG there - and I suggest we wait for the reality of rolling hardware. Not as much fun, of course.
29. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
#20 - like your ideas... what do you think about using fuel cell tech to produce electricity for the grid, ie., build massive scale fuel cell complexes along the cost, crack the hydrogen out of ocean water using small, standardized nukes, pump output to the grid. kind of seems like a good way to get clean energy, and move cars to almost all electric (use Diesel to run elec gen on car when needed, other wise use new MIT batteries to get charge off of the grid using fuel cell tech).
28. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
"What is the benefit of burning coal in a power station to charge the hybrid's battery over petrol?" The answer is short, sweet, and good for you. The benefit is in your WALLET. The benefit is that you will be buying your energy, probably, from your government, which you can control by using the power of the vote. Better yet, you could manufacture your own electric energy using solar power or wind power, which would be very clean energy. Remember, this is not just about the environment, it's also about economic interests and benefits (benefits for YOU).
27. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
#20 - like your ideas... what do you think about using fuel cell tech to produce electricity for the grid, ie., build massive scale fuel cell complexes along the cost, crack the hydrogen out of ocean water using small, standardized nukes, pump output to the grid. kind of seems like a good way to get clean energy, and move cars to almost all electric (use Diesel to run elec gen on car when needed, other wise use new MIT batteries to get charge off of the grid using fuel cell tech).
26. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
IN defense to the car makers they have to work in extreme cold and hot conditions with varied customer tastes. But eliminate the trial lawyers and take some risks and give some options to the buyers vs. tell the buyers what we can do?? We will decide the winners not them!!!! Let us decide if we need trunk space or not, etc. Now that would be success, give the customer the option of choices???
25. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Auto manufacturers are so tied to petroleum companies that it makes it politically difficult, if not impossible, for the auto manufacturers to develop PHEVs. Combine this with the fact that auto manufacturers have billions invested in current ICE production lines there is no way PHEV technology will be available any time soon. Even the Toyota Prius which is ideally positioned to go PHEV immediately will be stalled by the oil lobby. I really think that PHEV is one of the major items in an intelligent energy policy that must include nuclear power as well as other energy alternates - but we don't even have an energy policy! PHEV technology is swimming against the tide and the tide is for bigger gas guzzlers promoted by the auto manufacturers and the petroleum companies. Just look at the ads on TV...and $5:00 a gallon gas is just around the corner. If the US does not move away from dependence on foreign oil our economy will tank which is what our enemies (we know who they are) want. It is despicable that US oil companies are complicit with this prospect.
24. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
21 someone is doing a Hybrid deisel it will get arounf 225 MPG its a kit car look up the XR3 Hybrid
23. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
ACTUALLY, volvo is. they have the c30 coming out in a deisel hybrid model and its sposedly getting well over 60mpg! look it up!
22. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I have to agree with #21. This seems the easiest way to transition to electric cars. Have a battery electric you can plug in that has a diesel generator aboard for when you run out of juice for the battery. Then cost and efficiency drives what fuel you use when. As demand for electricity drives prices up, more power plants will come online. We already have some nuke plants in the beginning stages. Cleaner, safer, cheaper.
21. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
It's surprising to me that no one is developing a diesel/hyrid. If you combined a small turbo diesel with a Li battery pack, you would easily exceed all of the performance figures we've seen for plugins.
20. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
The new Lithium Nickle Manganes oxide system batteries, invented by MIT will over come all the problems with Li batteries and give a faster charge and double the range of present Li battries at a lower cost. A new engine, called a Rand Cam will also give a very compact hi power mulifuel on board back up generator. So the future is about to arrive. The Prius is a joke here in Europe, as most Diesels can match or beat it on mpg. Hydrogen is a no go, it has to be made and difficult to transport, ethanol cost as much oil to produce energy out and the corn produced stuff has a high cancer causing gas when burnt. The sugar cane produced stuff is OK. So I agree with the idea get out out of gasoline\ethanol go biodiesel. Hell coconut oil makes a great diesel fuel. Central generation of power with good gas scrubers on coal will beat any gasoline engine for co2 per Kw and thats what matters. Larger Solar power stations with pressurised hot water storage for overnight power generation are coming coming, so there is hope in getting out of oil.
19. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
I've been holding out of buying a new car because I didn't like the current options out there. If the PHEV Prius is announced, I'll buy one.
18. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
#12, really you don't know what you are talking about. Tesla is using their own battery sytem (ESS) with tradition LI cells. A123 has a problem with power density and high cost. At this time they can not produce enough cells for any PEV. Furthmore, GM has yet to select a vendor for the volt if that vapourware vehicle ever sees the light of day. They have 2 companies they are working with to evaluate tech and one is a123 but it is by no means a production ready option. There is no winner or loser in Li batter tech yet, there is not even an ideal option. Sony did not lose selecting betamax it was their own tech much like the HDDVD vs BlueRay battle now and it had nothing to due with timing.
17. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
I wonder why they do not use the ultracapacitor technology that ZENN motors is using from EESTOR? They get 500 miles for a 5 minute charge. Information on www.ultracapacitors.org
16. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
In response to #3: The benefits to plugging-in a vehicle rather than burning petrol in your car are many. 1. The grid is cleaner than the internal combustion engine. Even in those states that burn coal to make electricity, CO2 production with a plug-in hybrid will be 15% less than that same hybrid running on petrol. 2. The grid continues to get cleaner, cars don't. In my state 14% of my electricity is generated from renewables like solar and wind. These sources of energy will grow over time and as they do our plug-in cars will become more green. 3. It is easier to make progress on cleaning up power plants. As we develope better and better pollution control systems it is far easier to clean up a few thousand power plants than it is to retrofit and clean up several million private vehicles. 4. Regulated Pricing. Electric Utilities are organized for public benefit as well as profit. they are regulated by public utilities commissions. As a result, the price of electricity is extremely stable. If a utility wants to raise prices, it must hold public hearings and win approval of the regulatory agency. When was the last time you attended a public hearing when your local gas station wanted to raise the price of pertol? 5. Efficiency. Electric vehicles are 5 times more efficient than internal cumbustion engines. Electric vehicles put a huge amount of their stored energy into moving the car forward. Internal combustion engines put a lot of their energy into making waste heat and are therefore not as efficient. If we are going reduce our oil comsumption in this country, efficiency is going to matter. 6. Air Quality. Internal combustion engines emit a raft of compounds that are unhealthy, plain and simple. the more electric miles we can drive, the cleaner our air. 7. Lower maintenance costs and less landfill waste. Electric vehicles require almost no maintenance and have no air cleaners, oil filters, spark plugs, engine oil, fan belts, radiators, fuel filters, etc. gas engines require maintenence and a whole bunch of nasty oily replacement parts that end up in landfills. If a driver purchased a plug-in hybrid and drove just 20 all-electric miles per day, their car would never need a tune-up and they would shed no nasty dirty parts into the landfill. I could keep going, but you get the picture.
15. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
to commentor #10, about the aftermarket plug in kits from hymotion (its owned by 123systems) and calcars and google's plug it project, its currently all about the cost. Currently its only suitable for fleets, as the expenses are scaled down..
14. Soon we'll be back to where we were 10 years ago!
Website: http://evnut.com
Our main vehicle is a Toyota Rav4EV (charged from the solar panels on the garage roof). These fully electric, 80 mph, 100+ mile range vehicles were built from 1997 until model year 2003. Ours is a 2002, and we have 50,000 miles on ours after more than four years of driving. Many drivers have gone over 100,000 miles and are still going strong on the original batteries. So here is a ten-year-old battery technology that offers over 100 miles of battery range. And today we're struggling for seven or ten or even 40 miles? I guess if we work hard enough, we can eventually find out way back to where we were ten years ago. :sigh: GM had the EV1 going about 150 miles per charge.... and today the promised Volt will manage 40 miles... if we can just find the batteries that will allow that huge range!
13. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
Website: http://www.dorksandlosers.com
You'll need at least 20 MPG on battery before anyone would be comfortable driving it.
12. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
Unfortunately Toyota bet on the wrong Lithium technology, so now they are a bit behind. Three or four companies have already solved the Lithium problem-- most famous is A123 Systems, whose batteries grace the all-electric Tesla Roadster (this is who GM was smart enough to team up with for their upcoming Chevy Volt). But besides them, Valence Technologies has lithium batteries for cars, as does Altair Nano, and a fourth company in Canada called Advance Lithium Power-- whose batteries will be used in the new luxury Plug-In hybrid by Fisker Automotive (www.fiskerautomotive.com). All four companies have patented unique solutions for safe lithium batteries, and all use different technology from the one Toyota bet heavily on. In this case GM may really benefit from being "last"-- much like Sony bet heavily on Betamax back in the day and then lost big when everyone went with VHS-- GM is the latecomer but will license proven technology from A123 Systems rather than pour research dollars into developing their own lithium solution. A123 lithium batteries will I think also appear in the 2009 V-1 from Venture Vehicles (www.flytheroad.com)
11. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
#3, My take on why a plug-in hybrid is better is that getting energy from a centralized source like the electrical grid is likely to be more efficient. Think of all the waste going on in an individual car. The electrical grid system is doing all the energy conversion from raw materials all in one or a few places, not in every one's car that needs to be separately maintained. Also, the original source of the energy can change, but users' cars don't change. For example, cars could still receive electricity if the grid went from coal to nuclear or whatever. It is always more efficient to do things centrally, unless the distribution has too much loss. I guess that is the question: is the electrical grid an efficient means of delivering energy? Also, how does it compare in pollution? It's easier to optimize in centralized locations rather than changing all the cars every once in a while. Interesting...
10. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
Website: www.vivagen.net
We own a 2007 Prius and really love it, as we get about 47 MPG ciy mileage. But we also see that other 3rd party companies, such as Hymotion and 123Systems, and even Google are implementing Li-Ion battery pack upgrades boasting over 100 MPG, even up to 150 MPG. From our viewpoint, as Prius owners and environmentalists, Toyota R&D is not doing enough to research and implement Li-ion and plug-in technology. With some pun intended, they seem to be "asleep at the wheel". And, this leaves owners like us wondering WHY such technology is only available as aftermarket add-ons. Before we make our next purchase, there needs to be some significant upgrades to the current Prius design.
9. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
Toyota first needs to focus on it's quality control! I have been test driving various Toyota's over the past couple of weeks since our Maxima died. I have also been a Toyota driver for over 25 years since my first Corolla. My test drive of the Prius was not impressive in terms of the fit and finish. The dash was vibrating and a little hard to read on rough roads. Two days ago I bought a 2008 Accord. Honda appears to be taking care of the small stuff, while Toyota is dropping the ball.
8. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
to commentor #4: you would be much better of reading about things before making un-informed statements. The LI batteries are available but even Fuji motors does not use them on small vehicles. They put them on heavy machinery, where the batteries are heavily shielded. EVERYONE is aware that many tests need to be run to ensure their will not be any health risks. I am sure you would have been saying EVERYONE knows you can walk into a nuclear blast zone with no danger if you were around back in the days we exposed our troops to radiation in the desert here and out on a few islands in Asia.
7. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
The mentioned Saturn Vue Greeline is just a pipedream. If you follow the announcements, GM is working with a company to develop Lithium Ion technology. They aren't even close but if you see the advertizing, they try to make it appear that they will sell a car real soon. NOT! What Toyota appears to be doing is realistic and will accomodate future Lithium Ion technology when it does indeed become safer.
6. RE: First Look: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
Locally produced Biomass can be co-fired in coal burning power plants - Renewable, carbon neutral, 25 ton per acre Biomass Super Sorghum, Miscanthus grass, fast growing tree crops, etc. When algae is commercialized by 2015, algae farms can be adapted to coal plants, in order to remove most of the CO2 and exhaust fumes, and to provide supplemental fuel. Algae will average over 100 dry tons of biomass per acre per year. You also have a growing number of alternative power sources, which eventually will replace coal and fossil fuels.
5. RE: First Look: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
Even if we had to use coal plants for electricity it is better than oil. We have to get off oil.
4. RE: First Look: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
The 209 Sturn Vue Greenline will have plug-in capability geater than the Prius and will use those advanced 3rd generation li on batteries that Toyota obviously can't obtain. Toyota has pepeatedly lied about li ion batteiries, making false claims about the safety of batteries that everyone knows are very bit as safe as the now-obsolete NiMH batteries that Toyota is forced to use.
3. RE: First Look: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
Website: www.ontrac.co.za
I am a great fan of the 'hybrid' concept; particularly with small/medium size vehicles, but the idea of a 'plug-in' hybrid has me puzzled. Energy has to come from SOMEWHERE. What is the benefit of burning coal in a power station to charge the hybrid's battery over petrol?
2. RE: First Look: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
I am ready to buy the model described, the first 2009 T/H Plug In. Where do I sign? When can I take delivery?
1. RE: First Look: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
The proposed 7 miles prior to recharge for the 2009 PRIUS, seem to low, if the several companies modifing the present cars are claiming 40 miles before recharging is factual. As a satisfied 2005 PRIUS owner, I would hope for a figure higher then 7 miles before charging. Please keep working on that. Thank you. larry
Did everyone forget about CNG vehicles? No pollution, fill up at home less than $1 per gallon. Widely made in 90's & 2000 for fleet vehicles. None now. Why?
119. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
The oil companies must be putting serious pressure on Toyota - 7 miles before a recharge or the GAS engine comes on! Tesla has b ls. Toyota, grow some.
118. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
We have been following the development of the Prius Hybrid since my sister on the East Coast bought one in 2001. Currently, we are looking to buy a new car (maybe a 2009 Prius). My wife and I just returned from a long trip from the Madison, WI Area to Sante Fe and Taos, NM using our Toyota Corolla and got 39+ mpg fully loaded during our vacation. While we think we will probably buy a 2009 Prius, we are hesitant because we know that Honda is coming out with a 2009 Hybrid (not until after 1/2009) that may out perform the Prius regarding mpg, cargo space etc. Most people we speak to about their Prius including both my younger sister and my younger brother really like their Prius but report getting only about 50 mpg max on the highway (we do more highway driving than city driving). 50 mpg is not much more than our Corolla gets @ 39 to 40 mpg hwy. Since we can no longer get the tax incentive for the Prius, would it still be worth the extra 9 or 10,000 more than one would pay for a new Corolla? Any helpful information or supportive feedback that would help us make a good decision on buying the best "Green Car" that will meet our needs would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
117. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
> Coal is DIRTY, OIL is DIRTY and EXPENSIVE, Nuclear is VERY VERY DIRTY and VERY VERY Expensive so as THINKING humans we are left with wind and sun for energy sources. But, humans that can do MATH understand there is not enough solar or wind energy that can be captured in the US to support the current population density, much less including inward migration, so we will have to continue with coal and develop nuclear power. Otherwise, we will starve in the dark.
116. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
The big 3..especially GM can go the way of the dino for all I care. Instead of embracing they decided to literally squash their EV technology. Toyota is guilty as well...Question...Why can't Toyota build a prius that had the RAV4 EV technology coupled with a small ICE??! Better...why don't they bring back the RAV4 EV with 120miles per charge? Hmmm.
115. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Waiting for Lithium Ion batt. to mature? Wow they have only been around for 30 years... They are dragging their feet on purpose, because they want all you lemmings to run out and buy the 7 mile version, then wait two years and run out and buy the 15 mile version, then wait two years and they will release another 30 mile version. If a guy in a garage can make a prius do 40 miles without gas then Toyota can do better, they just don't because they are greedy. F~ Them and their cooperate BS, build you're own EV, its under $10K total and will do 60 miles with no gas.
114. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
The best combination is a plug in Prius with the company EEStor's solid state ultracapacitor.It will give a 10x capacity over the present batteries in the Prius.
113. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
For a lifetime of driving I have averaged 40+ mpg. I drove 2 Rabbit Diesels as well as a Golf Diesel. I am now getting 40-43 mpg faithfully from my 2000 Honda Civic. I want a Plug-in that will give me at least 100 mpg overall if not better. I would like better. Can you do it? I bet you can and they would fly out of the showroom. I remember my Rabbits faithfully getting 55-60. There is a huge number of us out here who can't understand why the big 3 have kept their head in the sand for so long. Hmmmm, a pun?
112. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Question: How does the plug-in effect the cost of driving?...such as dollars/100 miles. Seems we need to know the cost of a 4 hour charge and amount of gas used per 100 miles at, say $4/gallon. Please respond at pauld213@hotmail.com.
111. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
#21 Where Have you been? Nuclear is not cleaner! It is hyped to be a clean energy, but when you generate power with nuclear you get spent, highly radioactive nuclear waste that has to be buried inside a mountain in specially designed containers. It costs millions for the excavation and building the storage containers. Also they are in the process of hollowing out a mountain for storing nuclear waste and at current production levels, the mountain cave will be full as soon as it is completed. They will have to immediately have to start on another mountain. I don't care how well the containers are designed, eventually they are going to leak toxic waste into the ground. We need to use solar and wind power, they generate no waste from beginning to end. I agree with the plug in hybrid idea, but I am tired of seeing high school shop classes who can build a woking hybrid of all electric vehicle, and then hearing how multi-billion dollar auto companies can't do it for another ten years. I am proud to be american, but we are getting our tail kicked on the automotive front.
110. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Website: http://www.looksgoodinpolkadots.wordpress.com
I'm all over the PHEV idea. We ADORE our 05 Prius and should be ready to upgrade about the time the PLUG IN models arrive. EV's are much more efficient than any other automotive option. More efficient than hydrogen, definitely more efficient than gasoline. Yes it takes electricity to charge those bad boys up... so buy yourself some wind credits through the power company to offset your footprint. Install solar panels on your house... no more excuses people. EV's make sense. http://looksgoodinpolkadots.wordpress.com/2008/05/22/electric-vehicles-and-hydrogen-vehicles/
109. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Re #104. The cost of a replacement battery for the RAV4 EV was ~$20000. The American public purchased only about 300 RAV4 EV's per year, which of course was unsufficient to warrant continued production.
108. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
#86 only if u new what your talking about... you are on the "band-wagon" where u think everything is over priced, don't like it DON'T BUY it. And before you post something research instead of just listening to what your friends are saying that I am sure they are pulling the information out of their ass
107. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Gas is going up...$4.00+ in California keep going to the pump...every week waste about $60.00 dollars...Can wait to buy one of this Hybrid plug-in .
106. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
#86. "Big Oil" profits are 9%. I willing to bet the company you work for makes more than that.
105. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Like it or not, coal and nuclear will be powering us for quite awhile as oil supplies dwindle. Anybody who has done even rudimentary research on the subject knows that solar cells are not only marginally efficient, but that in many cases it takes a load of energy to manufacture them and a lot of noxious chemicals. Wind simply does not offer the required density. In the long run we'll be using a combination of all of the above, but the near term (under twenty year solution) will be nukes and coal. Deal with it.
104. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
We have 2 people in sonoma with rava 4 toyotas and they are getting 120 miles per charge. these cars are like 7 years old. what happened??
103. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Re #14: Read up on why Toyota pulled the RAV4-EV. It was a license problem. Chevron purchased the patent rights for the superior battery technology in the RAV4-EV and they're suppressing it. Its sad our only hope for better technologies is that some foreign company ( Sanyo, Panasonic, Varta? ) develops it before the US Automaker or Oil Industry can kill it.
102. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Step 1 - California eliminates building permit fees for solar energy projects, e.g. solar electric panels. Step 2 - California eliminates increased property assessments for homes that install solar projects. Step 3 - Local power companies buy back excess power from solar electric panels according to time-of-day billing rates. Step 4 - States reduce registration fees for qualifying hybrid and EV plug-in vehicles. Step 5 - I'll put my money where my mouth is and buy all of the above.
101. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Website: http://www.mickmarsden.com
My lease is up on my VW Passat March 28th 2009. I so want to buy a plug-in Prius at that time.
100. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Coal is DIRTY, OIL is DIRTY and EXPENSIVE, Nuclear is VERY VERY DIRTY and VERY VERY Expensive so as THINKING humans we are left with wind and sun for energy sources. The Prius Electric with hybred is great solution they should sell and optional Solar/Battery solution for night time charging. And build in Solar panels on the roof (already available in aftermarket). This IS the solution. Average 90 to 150 miles per gallon of fuel the fuel could be gasoline or nat type gas. Within 20 years we will find battery technology that will just need battery/solar solution with no other fuel source. So the REAL solution NOW is a Prius Solar Roof/Lithium and a Small Hybred Pickup like the totally cool aBAT.
99. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Coal is ten times cheaper than crude oil even. The Coal fired power plant is dirty but less so than automobiles and they are more efficient and there are many fewer "tailpipes" to monitor. The waste heat from coal fired power plants can be used to help make ethanol for example, but that from cars cannot be. Natural gas fired cogeneration powerplants can be three times as efficient as most car engines.
98. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I have 30 185 watt solar panels on my roof and a large battery array in the garage. My wife's Prius will be a plug in by the end of June. Its batteries will be powered by the sun. The batteries will be lithium ion. Toyota is just being mesmerized by its own research. There are many plug-in Prius' on the highway with lithium ion batteries. calcars.org has all the information Toyota needs but they have to do it themselves. They have become just like Detroi. If they don't invent it, it cannot be good.
97. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Dear Toyota, Please build this Plug-In Hybrid Technology to be on Dealer lots this year. I want to buy the Plug-In Prius more than anything in the world. This is the most exciting technology I've read/studied and love it. Also, Please make it possible to fill the vehicle with CNG, Compressed Natural gas. Almost every home that has Electricity, Also has a Natural Gas Source. And Natural Gas is much cleaner than Gasoline. And Natural gas cost less than One Dollar per equivalent Gallon of gasoline as well. These are two good reasons to make the vehicle have the choice between the three fuels. Electricity, Gasoline, CNG, or a combination of each. Thank you Toyota! I'll call your customer service/Corporate Headquarters everyday until you sell the Plug in Prius to the public. I'm soo excited! Please don't make us continue to wait!
96. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Website: www.aptera.com
300+ MPG. Enough said.
95. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
i have a 2005 toyota prius that works great,the only complaint is the tires are wearing out at 30000 miles.you would think they would last through the warrenty,toyota should address the problem,what tires would someone suggest i buy.thanks
94. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
One has always wondered why there is a punch out circle on the bottom bumper of the Prius and other Toyota cars.Wife currently gets 55 MPG on her 08 model. The 10" model will double in one way charges (14 miles). Big 3 have a chance to turn the gas issue into the biggest consumer upgrade in history. If they do not get it right this time, to hell with them. I am dying to buy American, but it lookslike it will be Toyota again.
93. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I won't get a hybrid until they make a station wagon or minivan size. I'm in the service industry and have equipment to haul. Besides, I've heard that station wagon's are more aerodynamically efficient than sedan's.
92. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
We need to go nuclear to get the energy, France does it, China does it, we can do it.
91. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
People who say that plug-ins are stupid because of electricity coming from burning oil obviously don't consider hydro power, wind power, solar or nuclear power. You don't have to burn oil to make electric power just like you don't have to eat fast food for every meal. There are choices people!
90. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Bring back the EV1 and the RAV4EV! Those EV's worked great, the people that drove them said they were great, any many years latter we can only get 7 miles? My Ideal setup would be a hybrid for long trips and an electric only for most of my driving. Add some solar panels on the roof, a few batteries in the garage with an inverter and store the power from the sun during the day and put in in your EV at night! More power to toyota however, unlike the big three, they have a car that people want NOW. The big three are so short sighted! They make money while they can and are NEVER in sync with what the market is asking for. They are behind the curve most of the time.
89. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Its called a tesla. 220 miles on a charge, corrvette performance. add home solar and you drive for free! now in production. expensive but so were dvds when they first came out.
88. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
When oil gets to $150-200 a barrel, what do you think electricity is going to cost? Plug ins are stupid! Should be concentrating on technology to recharge an efficient battery with motion.
87. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I want to know of a Toyota dealer who has advance/current info. on the '09 Prius. I'm interested in getting on a waiting list. Thanks, Dennis
86. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I own a 2006 Prius and love it. Looking forward to plug in's. Re: commenter #5, how many feel like me - I can't wait for the day when we can "return the favor" to big oil and stomp them into the ground - just as they've been doing to us all these years! We have a global crisis - our politivians are immobilzed by lobbyists, more and more people can't eat, can't pay their mortgages, we're shorting education while big oil "rapes" us. They're taking obscene profits and, remember, they don't call income "profit" until they can't find anywhere else to pidgeon hole it.
85. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
RE: Comment #70 - Wife drives 2 miles to work in their minivan. Buddy, do the math. How much gas/money will she save with a PHEV? The premium for the car would buy decades of gasoline for your wife's commute! PHEV's are great if they can deal with someone like myself who has a 70 mile commute (round trip) and having a car run 40 miles+ each way on electricity would be terrific.
84. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
We need 30-40 miles of range on battery alone. That kind of range will turn the world upside down and set the U.S. free from foreign oil. Think of the global repercussions! No more cow towing to the Saudis and their ilk. Yes, we will have to generate more electricity to charge the batteries, but we've got lots of options there. It narrows our energy challenge into an issue of investment in the electrical grid with OUR OWN resources.
83. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I have a 2008 toyota prius and I love it I am planing on geting a plug-in prius for my sun.
82. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I drive a Prius and enjoy 50+ mpg, however, I have heard that a wagon design with solar assist is also in the making.
81. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
im 18 going on 19 i remember saying i would much rather wait a few years for the prius to be a plug in car. before i buy one. and low and behold its here! aahhh! :] i can't wait.
80. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Website: http://fuelzilla.com/
If they can make a production model go 7 miles on electric power only, there will sure be upgrades on the market that will boost it to 20 and 40 miles, depending on how much you are willing to pay for a battery. There is a ton of unused space in Prius'es trunk (assuming they will not do a major redesign). Also, a little correction: the gasoline engine in the current (2007) model kicks in at around 40 MPH, not 25 MPH. If you are accelerating on a down slope or noone is behind you, you can conceivably get it to 40 MPH in electric only. In real life if you try to keep up with traffic, you will only get to 15MPH or so before ICE kicks in because you would want quicker acceleration than the electric motor (the battery's current actually) can provide. Anxiously waiting for the 2009 model. My kid had grown up to driving age and I'm planning to dump my 2007 Prius on him and get myself a 2009, LOL!
79. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype & Gas Prices
These hybrids are great and they'll do well. For the people that are talking about $5-6 gas prices. Realize why gas is so expensive first. It is the weak dollar. When the economy turns around in the next 3 or 4 years and the dollar gets back to even par with the Euro from interest rate hikes and debt pay-down, which it will... then gas prices will at that time reach levels where people will think of them as reasonable again. Peak oil is BS. It's all manipulated on the open markets, supply and inventories that is...
78. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Soon we'll be back to where we were 20 years ago! The oil companies buy up battery technologys and do nothing with it to kill innovation. The technology to drive hundreds of miles at a time on electricity is around. There are even cars that run on (compressed) air. Looking at NMG car, Tango, Telsa, and Zenn car that's highway capable
77. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Toyota has yet to give up the parallel approach - the gain in distance is achieved in decoupling into a series configuration and adding more battery with the smaller ICE engine and no mechanical transmission. Prius will gain massive distance with more battery when they give up the mechanical connection from the engine to the tires.
76. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
The 7 miles on elctric only is a joke...check out Raser Technolgies..they we show off a Hummer that will get 100mpg!!! Now we are talking!!!
75. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Reply to #25. I don't think the auto manufacturers are in cahoots really. I think the dealers make so much money off of maintenance that they are trying to figure out a way to keep making it. PHEVs would lower this drastically and the dealers don't want that.
74. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I think that its a really cool idea, but if you travel alot and do so with friends or family you will be sacrificing too much trunk space. I'd rather have the trunk space and be able to carpool, along with all my gear, than have to take two cars that are slightly more efficient.
73. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
It is a little disappointing that Toyota is only looking at seven miles in the all electric range. Tesla has an all electric system, and GM is going with the Volt at forty all electric miles and Zap has a model with one hundred miles. Perhaps the technology is one year out and Toyota is trying to hit the market sooner, but with seven miles in electric mode, it is hardly worth making the transition from my current Prius when the technology is about to explode.
72. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
LOOK LIKE PRIUS IS THE CAR TO HAVE.
71. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I'm interested in the plugin all electric idea. I hope Toyota will fess up soon with details on what they are going to release. Until I know more, I'm keeping my eye more on the GM Volt (2010) 40 mile all electric (680 mile with backup generator), and the Zap Alias (2009) with a 100 mile all electric range. Also they both look better than a Prius.
70. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Currently my wife drives two miles to work in our mini-van. We are looking forward to trading the van in on a new 2009 Prius PHEV
69. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
My husband and I are renting a 2008 Prius for a road trip this year. We don't want to take our 14 miles to the gallon Jeep Cherokee. We are going to buy the 2009 Prius. How can you not buy one with ridulous gas prices. From all the other comments, I know we won't be the only ones. Go Prius!!
68. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I WANT ONE!!!! NOW
67. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
#58 "When fuel hits $5 or $6 a gallon say bye bye to the Big three" In Europe, the price is 8 USD a gallon, and your are right, there are no Big three cars here...
66. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
The plug in Prius is likely to be my next car to replace my 25 mi/GAL Ford Focus. BUT, if available in the US I would rather buy the compressed air car from the new French car manufacturer MDI. They will be for sale in France in 2009 and also available in bi-energy with excellent autonomy and half price than the Prius.
65. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
The plug in Prius is likely to be my next car to replace my 25 mi/GAL Ford Focus. BUT, if available in the US I would rather buy the compressed air car from the new French car manufacturer MDI. They will be for sale in France in 2009 and also available in bi-energy with excellent autonomy and half price than the Prius.
64. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
The plug in Prius is likely to be my next car to replace my 25 mi/GAL Ford Focus. BUT, if available in the US I would rather buy the compressed air car from the new French car manufacturer MDI. They will be for sale in France in 2009 and also available in bi-energy with excellent autonomy and half price than the Prius.
63. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
From what I have previously read, I thought the plug-in hybrids would get about 30 miles before exhausting the batteries. That would allow most drivers to commute at moderate speed without using gasoline. Seems to me, except for new adopters, that is the point at which a plug-in hybrid would really become attractive to urban drivers.
62. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
7 miles per charge is pathetic with a 3 to 4 hr. recharge time frame.. We had the ev1 about ten yrs. ago and thet could go forever on a charge (100 to 150 miles).. I guess we should go backwards and re-learn old ways to become efficient.. Mabe we should start becoming independent and build our own system as many people are doing today..
61. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I want to put up a deposit and get in line for a plug-in model of the Prius when they come out and I hope it will be soon!!! The big 3 US auto makers had their chance to produce a marvelous product and in fact did make such a product in the form of the EV1 but then collectively orchestrated a recall and destruction of this fine automobile to their shame.. It would have revived their industry as gas prices continues to go into the stratosphere but wonder of wonders they ass kissed their bed partners, the oil industry and other special interests including the Bushies to kill a great product.. The US auto industry will become extinct just like the dinosaurs because the morons who run it are not forward thinking and can,t adapt or see the inevitable coming.. They deserve what they get!!! Let,s, once again, hire some brains in our countrys industries so that we can get back to leading the world in inovation and technology.. John Meyer, a very concerned citizen..
60. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Website: http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2008/03/geneva-volkswagens-69-mpg-golf-diesel.html
Well, here's a promising start for diesel/hybrid technology. Due in the US market is the new VW Hybrid TDI Golf (rabbit), however like many of you were hoping, it does not include a Li-ion battery, it uses NiMH packs but still has a very nice output of 69 MPG. See the attached link for more info.
59. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Just when is the 2009 Prius supposed to come out? Number 28 has got it all wrong. Our society is steeped in what is best for me.A clean environment is best for ALL and in the long run benefits everyone, wallet included
58. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Some quick comments: 1. The Japanese get it, Detroit doesn't. 2. When fuel hits $5 or $6 a gallon say bye bye to the Big three, because they are short sighted and tied to the old way of thinking and big oil way with huge hp. 3. Plug in is great and I want one. It's just a step. The future is dictated by Peak Oil reality. Read up on it and get wise. The Prius is only a step. We need something even better. Check out Aptera for a look at future thinking. If you want to be really efficient and are in IT work from home. Electrons over the wire are far more efficient than moving humans and steel around on freeways.. The future for sustainability (no counting wars and massive famines) will be something like a wind generator providing perhaps 3KW of power for your "earth bermed home". The house will be far more efficient. The wind generator will provide the equivalent to 10 gallons of gas a month. You'll have to do all your driving on the equivalent of 1/10th that. This means, 3000lb cars are going to be to large and a 50KW motor way to large. The 42 HP Prius will be an expensive antique. You'll want a 300 to 500lb three wheeled 1 seater for most of your transportation. That will use a 3KW or less motor and probably a small battery. Your goal should be to have an enclosed piece of one man transportation with some supplies, like a velomobile. Maybe something like a three wheeled enclosed snowmobile for weight comparison. The HP will be low because you need the energy from renewable. You'll drive 15,000 miles with this kind of device on 1/10th the power from your wind generator, if your lucky.
57. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
For people who think that plug-ins are dirty because we burn coal to get the electricity from the wall, you should check out this web site for a detailed pollution calculation that shows why coal generated electricity is still much greener than burning gas in a car. http://www.evworld.com:80/general.cfm?page=evFAQ&title=EV%20FAQs
56. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
2009 seemed too long to wait for the Plug-in EV. They should have all the parts and blueprints of the previous EV's before and they are just dragging it. I hope the Oil Companies will not fund the "so called experts" and give bias studies again to discourage people from buying Plug in Hybrid EV's. We should show OPEC and other OIL Producing countries that we can survive with less use of their oil.
55. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
"The prototype battery system weighs about 220 lbs. more than the current production Prius pack and intrudes into the trunk so that that’s there’s only room for about two medium size suitcases." There ya go. One of the main reasons the prius is so viable to the general public is because it offers the same level of utility as a mainstream vehicle: Similar (or better) range, passenger space, and cargo space. Start sacrificing cargo or passenger room for more batteries and you pigeon-hole yourself back into the "specialty" market. There are thousands of people ready to buy a specialty vehicle that is ultra-high efficiency with low cargo space, but there are millions of people that want an "above average" efficiency car with no sacrifices. ----- Of course we can make it... but should we?
54. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Every battery technology has its advantages and disadvantages. I have a 2004 Prius and love it. But what I really wanted was an electric car, but the Rav4EV was only sold in the West. Ni Hydride have high current but need a computer to carefully control charge and discharge, but they have very high current output. Li is a very nice technology to use because the voltage of the cell is a very accurate indication of the state of charge. An interesting advantage of greater battery only range is that the safety actually improves because you are not trying to charge and discharge such a large percentage of the battery capacity in such a short time. As a side note one of the first batteries I bought was a bunch of surplus cells I bought from an ad in the back of Popular Science I think they cane from the Nike anti-aircraft missile program. I used than to jump start cars when they were 30 years old. They were F cells which are like d cells but about 50% longer.
53. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
#36 - you don't HAVE to plug in a 'plug in hybrid' - you CAN plug it in if you like - but if you want to drive around all year and go to the gas station every day you can. That's the beauty of the plug in hybrid.
52. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
#1 You need to keep in mind that the 7 miles per charge is based on the NiMH batteries NOT Lithium-ion. A PHEV based on Lithium-ion batteries is where you get the longer range.
51. Read #14
Everyone should simply read #14. The auto makers have stalled on this for over 10 YEARS.
50. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
The hybrids are sweet and I got a hand job from #2.
49. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I am buying one and I am going to ge ta solar panal and charge this thing off the grid that should help increase the green effect
48. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
this car rock off my parents sock cause they want to buy it but the only problem is that they are smooke too much so they can't afford it buty i just wanted to share that with you
47. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
What do you mean by plug in?
46. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Does anybody remember that chevron owns the nickel metal battery technology that worked so well 10 years ago on the rav-4, ev-1, s-10 electric, and ranger ev? They sued toyota for continuing to use the NiMh batteries that worked so well in the rav-4ev. THATS WHY WE DONT HAVE LONG RANGE EV'S ANYMORE!!!! I converted my own car a geo metro and get 50-60 miles per charge on regular wal mart boat batteries, so it is possible. All this talk about 10-40 mile ranges with exspensive lithium batteries is ridiculous. NiMh batteries work great only we are not allowed to use them because chevron bought out the rights.
45. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Does anybody remember that chevron owns the nickel metal battery technology that worked so well 10 years ago on the rav-4, ev-1, s-10 electric, and ranger ev? They sued toyota for continuing to use the NiMh batteries that worked so well in the rav-4ev. THATS WHY WE DONT HAVE LONG RANGE EV'S ANYMORE!!!! I converted my own car a geo metro and get 50-60 miles per charge on regular wal mart boat batteries, so it is possible. All this talk about 10-40 mile ranges with exspensive lithium batteries is ridiculous. NiMh batteries work great only we are not allowed to use them because chevron bought out the rights.
44. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
On another note, for people who think that plug-ins are dirty because we burn coal to get the electricity from the wall, you should know that power plants are more efficient and have a bigger yield of electricity than gasoline engines. So burning more coal to burn less gas really is beneficial to the environment, not to mention much cheaper.
43. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
There seems to be a misconception that the plug-in hybrid absolutely NEEDS to be plugged in. This is false. The reason why you would want to plug it in is that you don't burn gas for short runs. In theory, f you drive less than 7 miles a day and plug it in nightly, you'll never ever need to put gas in your car. But if you choose not to plug it in, then it operates like a normal prius, meaning it is always in Hybrid mode.
42. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I am interested in this vehicle for 2 reasons, to save money and to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. It's about time we have a vehicle that makes the greenies happy and also makes someone like me happy as well.
41. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Production of nickel batteries in hybrids negate the benefit of the vehicles, but combine combine 70mpg diesels with bio-diesel and you have a winner.
40. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
"Asakura said the prototypes can operate on electric power for a range of about 7 miles and can re-charge in three to four hours using a 110-vlot outlet. Under the hood is the current Prius’s 1.5-liter inline four. The electric motor generates 50kW, which combined with the more powerful pack, allows the Prius prototype to reach 62 mph on electric-only power. Current cars can only hit about 25 mph before the gasoline engine cuts in."--2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive. This means we can drive for 7 miles at a peak speed of 62 MPH without going into the HYBRID mode. This will work for short commutes to work, under 7 miles. for a gas free transport. Current hybrids shift from electric into HYBRID mode, which uses gas,if you exceed 25 mph. Please correct me if I am wrong or missing added points. Thank you.
39. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
As to the 2009 model..... I will buy it......if it is lithium-ion, with plug-in!
38. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I see the plug in hybrid as THE next generation automobile. Power plants that become more green. A power box in the garage that charges at the most economical times. Battery technology that improves. A small 'gasoline' engine that can burn used cooking oil, etc. AND people living closer to work. We could practically eliminate burning oil or coal over time.
37. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I see the plug in hybrid as THE next generation automobile. Power plants that become more green. A power box in the garage that charges at the most economical times. Battery technology that improves. A small 'gasoline' engine that can burn used cooking oil, etc. AND people living closer to work. We could practically eliminate burning oil or coal over time.
36. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I own a 2003 Prius and this is the first car I have had this long that I still say, "I LOVE MY CAR." That being said, I don't want to go to a plug in version. I don't want to have to rely on being able to plug my car in somewhere to get the best gas mileage, but want technology that provides better gas mileage without relying on a store, business, or other place where I may go to have a spot for me to "plug in" and recharge. I had heard Toyota was coming out with three versions of the Prius for 2009, only one of which was a plug in version...anyone else hear the same thing? What else do they have to offer, and where else am I going to have to look to replace my car in the next couple years?
35. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
When you talk about companies like Tesla and state they get so and so mileage from a charge. None of the companies stated have anything in production yet. All they have is concepts that they are having a hard time getting to production. Guess what. It's the batteries. All the car companies and battery makers can make all the claims they want but until you give us a production vehicle all you have is a concept.
34. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I work about 10 miles from my office. It would not be difficult to add a charging station in our parking lot. Most of my shopping trips are in the 20 mile one-way range. Charging stations in store parking lots could be an option for retailers looking for "green" points. I think 7-10 mile electric ranges are very viable.
33. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Comment on #31....please keep in mind that some of us drive very short distances. You are driving 50+ miles one way each day. The car is nice and warmed up and running efficiently. I live 5 miles from work. The stores I shop at are about 1 mile away. In the winter, I sometimes only average 36 MPG. It isn't always jack rabbit starts that hurt mileage.
32. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I am very likely to purchase the 2009 Prius, especially if its a plug in. How about adding factory installed solar panels on the roof of the vehical... so while its parked all day while I work it can recharge as well. My commute is about 10 miles each way, even with the low end estimate of 7 miles per charge... with a solar panel enhancement I could almost make it both ways without further improvments. Of-course the more improvements toward efficiency the better to include better battries or kinetic energy recapturing capabilites.
31. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Commment on #30, I own my third Prius and I commute over 50 mles one way in the DC area from MD to VA and have been getting over 53 MPG on the last two vehicles. I keep up with the traffic on the beltway and toll road driving at traffic speeds of about 65MPH. I surprised at people who are only getting in the 40s and suspect that it has a lot to do with driviing habits, as my wife only gets in the 40s but she does the jack rabbit starts ansd doesn't look ahead at the traffic suituations and anticipate slow downs and light changes. I beleive that all dirvers could improve their gas mileage significantly if they would only calm down and not try to be the first to get somewhere..
30. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Looks exciting but I agree with the writers who say 7 miles (not MPG, #13) per charge is too low. I've got nearly 70K miles on a 2003 (old model) Prius, at a bit over 42 MPG, figured the only accurate way - by dividing the odometer reading by the gallons bought each time and keeping an Excel file of the figures. The MPG readings on the car's display are usually about 5% optimistic. Forget promises and boasts, and EPA figures are simply ridiculous. Consumer Reports tests are the most accurate - my car got 41 MPG there - and I suggest we wait for the reality of rolling hardware. Not as much fun, of course.
29. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
#20 - like your ideas... what do you think about using fuel cell tech to produce electricity for the grid, ie., build massive scale fuel cell complexes along the cost, crack the hydrogen out of ocean water using small, standardized nukes, pump output to the grid. kind of seems like a good way to get clean energy, and move cars to almost all electric (use Diesel to run elec gen on car when needed, other wise use new MIT batteries to get charge off of the grid using fuel cell tech).
28. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
"What is the benefit of burning coal in a power station to charge the hybrid's battery over petrol?" The answer is short, sweet, and good for you. The benefit is in your WALLET. The benefit is that you will be buying your energy, probably, from your government, which you can control by using the power of the vote. Better yet, you could manufacture your own electric energy using solar power or wind power, which would be very clean energy. Remember, this is not just about the environment, it's also about economic interests and benefits (benefits for YOU).
27. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
#20 - like your ideas... what do you think about using fuel cell tech to produce electricity for the grid, ie., build massive scale fuel cell complexes along the cost, crack the hydrogen out of ocean water using small, standardized nukes, pump output to the grid. kind of seems like a good way to get clean energy, and move cars to almost all electric (use Diesel to run elec gen on car when needed, other wise use new MIT batteries to get charge off of the grid using fuel cell tech).
26. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
IN defense to the car makers they have to work in extreme cold and hot conditions with varied customer tastes. But eliminate the trial lawyers and take some risks and give some options to the buyers vs. tell the buyers what we can do?? We will decide the winners not them!!!! Let us decide if we need trunk space or not, etc. Now that would be success, give the customer the option of choices???
25. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
Auto manufacturers are so tied to petroleum companies that it makes it politically difficult, if not impossible, for the auto manufacturers to develop PHEVs. Combine this with the fact that auto manufacturers have billions invested in current ICE production lines there is no way PHEV technology will be available any time soon. Even the Toyota Prius which is ideally positioned to go PHEV immediately will be stalled by the oil lobby. I really think that PHEV is one of the major items in an intelligent energy policy that must include nuclear power as well as other energy alternates - but we don't even have an energy policy! PHEV technology is swimming against the tide and the tide is for bigger gas guzzlers promoted by the auto manufacturers and the petroleum companies. Just look at the ads on TV...and $5:00 a gallon gas is just around the corner. If the US does not move away from dependence on foreign oil our economy will tank which is what our enemies (we know who they are) want. It is despicable that US oil companies are complicit with this prospect.
24. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
21 someone is doing a Hybrid deisel it will get arounf 225 MPG its a kit car look up the XR3 Hybrid
23. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
ACTUALLY, volvo is. they have the c30 coming out in a deisel hybrid model and its sposedly getting well over 60mpg! look it up!
22. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
I have to agree with #21. This seems the easiest way to transition to electric cars. Have a battery electric you can plug in that has a diesel generator aboard for when you run out of juice for the battery. Then cost and efficiency drives what fuel you use when. As demand for electricity drives prices up, more power plants will come online. We already have some nuke plants in the beginning stages. Cleaner, safer, cheaper.
21. RE: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype: Tokyo Test Drive
It's surprising to me that no one is developing a diesel/hyrid. If you combined a small turbo diesel with a Li battery pack, you would easily exceed all of the performance figures we've seen for plugins.
20. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
The new Lithium Nickle Manganes oxide system batteries, invented by MIT will over come all the problems with Li batteries and give a faster charge and double the range of present Li battries at a lower cost. A new engine, called a Rand Cam will also give a very compact hi power mulifuel on board back up generator. So the future is about to arrive. The Prius is a joke here in Europe, as most Diesels can match or beat it on mpg. Hydrogen is a no go, it has to be made and difficult to transport, ethanol cost as much oil to produce energy out and the corn produced stuff has a high cancer causing gas when burnt. The sugar cane produced stuff is OK. So I agree with the idea get out out of gasoline\ethanol go biodiesel. Hell coconut oil makes a great diesel fuel. Central generation of power with good gas scrubers on coal will beat any gasoline engine for co2 per Kw and thats what matters. Larger Solar power stations with pressurised hot water storage for overnight power generation are coming coming, so there is hope in getting out of oil.
19. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
I've been holding out of buying a new car because I didn't like the current options out there. If the PHEV Prius is announced, I'll buy one.
18. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
#12, really you don't know what you are talking about. Tesla is using their own battery sytem (ESS) with tradition LI cells. A123 has a problem with power density and high cost. At this time they can not produce enough cells for any PEV. Furthmore, GM has yet to select a vendor for the volt if that vapourware vehicle ever sees the light of day. They have 2 companies they are working with to evaluate tech and one is a123 but it is by no means a production ready option. There is no winner or loser in Li batter tech yet, there is not even an ideal option. Sony did not lose selecting betamax it was their own tech much like the HDDVD vs BlueRay battle now and it had nothing to due with timing.
17. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
I wonder why they do not use the ultracapacitor technology that ZENN motors is using from EESTOR? They get 500 miles for a 5 minute charge. Information on www.ultracapacitors.org
16. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
In response to #3: The benefits to plugging-in a vehicle rather than burning petrol in your car are many. 1. The grid is cleaner than the internal combustion engine. Even in those states that burn coal to make electricity, CO2 production with a plug-in hybrid will be 15% less than that same hybrid running on petrol. 2. The grid continues to get cleaner, cars don't. In my state 14% of my electricity is generated from renewables like solar and wind. These sources of energy will grow over time and as they do our plug-in cars will become more green. 3. It is easier to make progress on cleaning up power plants. As we develope better and better pollution control systems it is far easier to clean up a few thousand power plants than it is to retrofit and clean up several million private vehicles. 4. Regulated Pricing. Electric Utilities are organized for public benefit as well as profit. they are regulated by public utilities commissions. As a result, the price of electricity is extremely stable. If a utility wants to raise prices, it must hold public hearings and win approval of the regulatory agency. When was the last time you attended a public hearing when your local gas station wanted to raise the price of pertol? 5. Efficiency. Electric vehicles are 5 times more efficient than internal cumbustion engines. Electric vehicles put a huge amount of their stored energy into moving the car forward. Internal combustion engines put a lot of their energy into making waste heat and are therefore not as efficient. If we are going reduce our oil comsumption in this country, efficiency is going to matter. 6. Air Quality. Internal combustion engines emit a raft of compounds that are unhealthy, plain and simple. the more electric miles we can drive, the cleaner our air. 7. Lower maintenance costs and less landfill waste. Electric vehicles require almost no maintenance and have no air cleaners, oil filters, spark plugs, engine oil, fan belts, radiators, fuel filters, etc. gas engines require maintenence and a whole bunch of nasty oily replacement parts that end up in landfills. If a driver purchased a plug-in hybrid and drove just 20 all-electric miles per day, their car would never need a tune-up and they would shed no nasty dirty parts into the landfill. I could keep going, but you get the picture.
15. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
to commentor #10, about the aftermarket plug in kits from hymotion (its owned by 123systems) and calcars and google's plug it project, its currently all about the cost. Currently its only suitable for fleets, as the expenses are scaled down..
14. Soon we'll be back to where we were 10 years ago!
Website: http://evnut.com
Our main vehicle is a Toyota Rav4EV (charged from the solar panels on the garage roof). These fully electric, 80 mph, 100+ mile range vehicles were built from 1997 until model year 2003. Ours is a 2002, and we have 50,000 miles on ours after more than four years of driving. Many drivers have gone over 100,000 miles and are still going strong on the original batteries. So here is a ten-year-old battery technology that offers over 100 miles of battery range. And today we're struggling for seven or ten or even 40 miles? I guess if we work hard enough, we can eventually find out way back to where we were ten years ago. :sigh: GM had the EV1 going about 150 miles per charge.... and today the promised Volt will manage 40 miles... if we can just find the batteries that will allow that huge range!
13. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
Website: http://www.dorksandlosers.com
You'll need at least 20 MPG on battery before anyone would be comfortable driving it.
12. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
Unfortunately Toyota bet on the wrong Lithium technology, so now they are a bit behind. Three or four companies have already solved the Lithium problem-- most famous is A123 Systems, whose batteries grace the all-electric Tesla Roadster (this is who GM was smart enough to team up with for their upcoming Chevy Volt). But besides them, Valence Technologies has lithium batteries for cars, as does Altair Nano, and a fourth company in Canada called Advance Lithium Power-- whose batteries will be used in the new luxury Plug-In hybrid by Fisker Automotive (www.fiskerautomotive.com). All four companies have patented unique solutions for safe lithium batteries, and all use different technology from the one Toyota bet heavily on. In this case GM may really benefit from being "last"-- much like Sony bet heavily on Betamax back in the day and then lost big when everyone went with VHS-- GM is the latecomer but will license proven technology from A123 Systems rather than pour research dollars into developing their own lithium solution. A123 lithium batteries will I think also appear in the 2009 V-1 from Venture Vehicles (www.flytheroad.com)
11. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
#3, My take on why a plug-in hybrid is better is that getting energy from a centralized source like the electrical grid is likely to be more efficient. Think of all the waste going on in an individual car. The electrical grid system is doing all the energy conversion from raw materials all in one or a few places, not in every one's car that needs to be separately maintained. Also, the original source of the energy can change, but users' cars don't change. For example, cars could still receive electricity if the grid went from coal to nuclear or whatever. It is always more efficient to do things centrally, unless the distribution has too much loss. I guess that is the question: is the electrical grid an efficient means of delivering energy? Also, how does it compare in pollution? It's easier to optimize in centralized locations rather than changing all the cars every once in a while. Interesting...
10. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
Website: www.vivagen.net
We own a 2007 Prius and really love it, as we get about 47 MPG ciy mileage. But we also see that other 3rd party companies, such as Hymotion and 123Systems, and even Google are implementing Li-Ion battery pack upgrades boasting over 100 MPG, even up to 150 MPG. From our viewpoint, as Prius owners and environmentalists, Toyota R&D is not doing enough to research and implement Li-ion and plug-in technology. With some pun intended, they seem to be "asleep at the wheel". And, this leaves owners like us wondering WHY such technology is only available as aftermarket add-ons. Before we make our next purchase, there needs to be some significant upgrades to the current Prius design.
9. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
Toyota first needs to focus on it's quality control! I have been test driving various Toyota's over the past couple of weeks since our Maxima died. I have also been a Toyota driver for over 25 years since my first Corolla. My test drive of the Prius was not impressive in terms of the fit and finish. The dash was vibrating and a little hard to read on rough roads. Two days ago I bought a 2008 Accord. Honda appears to be taking care of the small stuff, while Toyota is dropping the ball.
8. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
to commentor #4: you would be much better of reading about things before making un-informed statements. The LI batteries are available but even Fuji motors does not use them on small vehicles. They put them on heavy machinery, where the batteries are heavily shielded. EVERYONE is aware that many tests need to be run to ensure their will not be any health risks. I am sure you would have been saying EVERYONE knows you can walk into a nuclear blast zone with no danger if you were around back in the days we exposed our troops to radiation in the desert here and out on a few islands in Asia.
7. RE: First Drive: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
The mentioned Saturn Vue Greeline is just a pipedream. If you follow the announcements, GM is working with a company to develop Lithium Ion technology. They aren't even close but if you see the advertizing, they try to make it appear that they will sell a car real soon. NOT! What Toyota appears to be doing is realistic and will accomodate future Lithium Ion technology when it does indeed become safer.
6. RE: First Look: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
Locally produced Biomass can be co-fired in coal burning power plants - Renewable, carbon neutral, 25 ton per acre Biomass Super Sorghum, Miscanthus grass, fast growing tree crops, etc. When algae is commercialized by 2015, algae farms can be adapted to coal plants, in order to remove most of the CO2 and exhaust fumes, and to provide supplemental fuel. Algae will average over 100 dry tons of biomass per acre per year. You also have a growing number of alternative power sources, which eventually will replace coal and fossil fuels.
5. RE: First Look: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
Even if we had to use coal plants for electricity it is better than oil. We have to get off oil.
4. RE: First Look: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
The 209 Sturn Vue Greenline will have plug-in capability geater than the Prius and will use those advanced 3rd generation li on batteries that Toyota obviously can't obtain. Toyota has pepeatedly lied about li ion batteiries, making false claims about the safety of batteries that everyone knows are very bit as safe as the now-obsolete NiMH batteries that Toyota is forced to use.
3. RE: First Look: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
Website: www.ontrac.co.za
I am a great fan of the 'hybrid' concept; particularly with small/medium size vehicles, but the idea of a 'plug-in' hybrid has me puzzled. Energy has to come from SOMEWHERE. What is the benefit of burning coal in a power station to charge the hybrid's battery over petrol?
2. RE: First Look: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
I am ready to buy the model described, the first 2009 T/H Plug In. Where do I sign? When can I take delivery?
1. RE: First Look: 2009 Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid Prototype
The proposed 7 miles prior to recharge for the 2009 PRIUS, seem to low, if the several companies modifing the present cars are claiming 40 miles before recharging is factual. As a satisfied 2005 PRIUS owner, I would hope for a figure higher then 7 miles before charging. Please keep working on that. Thank you. larry
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